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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 9:48:45 GMT
Hello all, As a true street art addict i have been paying close attention at new releases, old pieces, prints and originals. I bought and appreciate a lot of pieces over the years. I do own a couple unsigned Banksy prints also. But a lot of Banksy art is way out of reach for me and most people. Which is a great shame as street art was originally intended to be free to see for everyone. Of course all artists also need food and most of them are reasonably (Cheap) priced. I am happy to pay for a stunning piece but some are just way out of reach. Banksy prices have been rising for years. There were stories about Banksy himself not caring for the aftermarket prices, bubbles bursting, Art dealers auctioning and buying their own pieces to push up prices, some even predicted Banksy flooding the market to ruin aftermarket prices. Banksy even made the Morons image when one of his pieces got sold in auction for silly money. (I'm the biggest Moron of the lot, since i own one of the LA Morons and the POW Morons  ) A lot of people bought and still buy as an investment, since prices were rising and rising and rising... But lately i see a little light at the end of the tunnel for us mortals who can not afford (most) unsigned prints, let alone originals or singed ones. It seems there are a lot of prints for sale who just don't sell for the asking prices. Some even lower their asking prices. As only 4 months ago when a print was offered it turned into a bidding frenzy..... Are we finally there that some prices steadily increase a little, and perhaps keep increasing over months? Are the days of rising Banksy prices behind us (for a while)? Is it possible to buy a signed Trolley Hunters (BW of course ) for 4.5k or less again? Is it true? Is it finally happening? Cheers, J |
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Post by posterbob on May 15, 2015 9:59:10 GMT
All you see at the moment is price stabilization due to excessively optimistic private and gallery pricing and a large influx of prints on the market due to high asking prices. The prints that are not selling at the moment are simply priced improperly; lower the prices to market level and they'll sell.
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Post by tartarus on May 15, 2015 10:00:15 GMT
I had been thinking the same. But theres nothing to say it isn't just the usual ups n downs. If he goes and does something big again and grabs a load of media attention, then they may either settle or they may rise.
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Post by j0hnny on May 15, 2015 10:28:09 GMT
Don't forget that every time there is a slight dip people start saying it's the end of the banksy high but, he bounces back or at least seems too. It's hard to tell for sure as you can never fully trust the hype.
On the other hand it must stop somewhere surely?
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Post by samfrost on May 15, 2015 16:09:30 GMT
I'm going to sound like an old-timer saying this, but does anyone remember when Banksy prices crashed in 2008? Things are only now recovering to pre-08 levels. Just a reminder of how swift and brutal the markets can be at any given point.
I do not see the rise from early 2013 to be sustainable at its current pace. I think prices stabilize in the short term. Keep in mind folks that we are talking M-U-L-T-I-P-L-E-S, which means supply can crush the market at any given point. I will be curious to see what prices the fall auctions bring. As others have noted, there seems to be a lot of supply coming online in recent months.
I wonder what a new print release would do to his market. Never say never...
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Post by posterbob on May 15, 2015 16:16:46 GMT
I'm going to sound like an old-timer saying this, but does anyone remember when Banksy prices crashed in 2008? Things are only now recovering to pre-08 levels. Just a reminder of how swift and brutal the markets can be at any given point. I do not see the rise from early 2013 to be sustainable at its current pace. I think prices stabilize in the short term. Keep in mind folks that we are talking M-U-L-T-I-P-L-E-S, which means supply can crush the market at any given point. I will be curious to see what prices the fall auctions bring. As others have noted, there seems to be a lot of supply coming online in recent months. I wonder what a new print release would do to his market. Never say never... The 2008 crash of every market really can't be taken into consideration. I do agree that the summer and fall auctions will provide tests of the health of his print market and I think that a lot of galleries are going to have to lower their prices a bit as they don't price items according to the current value, but a speculative one. |
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on May 15, 2015 17:39:41 GMT
anyone want to sell me a Rude Copper at original cost? what were they, like $50?
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Post by alittle on May 15, 2015 17:42:01 GMT
I too think we are looking more at stabilization rather than retrenchment. It is unreasonable to expect for prices to double every 6 months. The prints that are not selling, as posterbob has said, are priced unreasonably high. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 19:37:51 GMT
A very large, call it seismic, market correction in the US is approaching. What impact that will have on our little hobby is unknown. I suspect it will not be a good thing for so-called blue chip artists like Fairey, Banksy, Invader, Brainwash, etc., and will all but close the doors of the glut of new print houses and the artists they represent. Liquidate accordingly.
Just my bearish opinion.
Take it with a grain of salt.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 20:42:17 GMT
I am also not sure Banksy's are not selling. Yes a few won't get daft money they want. But that's not; not selling. Also if you also look at the reality and you have said yourself that actually his prices are moving him away from his trad market and similarly one of the causes of the rise in price has been the interest of the contemp market collectors in a street artist and other trad street artists. Similarly a lot of the trad market flogging them as the money is just so good and they have more important things to do with it than just look at it.
Re the contemp market they are buying at a higher rates than say people here are. Hence the prices at auctions as of late have not exactly been collapsing. So don't think they will rise at the recent daft rates but and steady increase. Do not see them collapsing but as others have said stabalising and steady increase. So do not really see much change.
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Post by dazarino on May 15, 2015 22:21:19 GMT
this trend of secondary market price rises for banksy prints may have hit a ceiling.take into account the prices of late world renowned artists, like dali and Picasso,I think he would be just under that print market. In my opinion.
Let's face it, when you get an original from an artist, is getting a print after that from them ever as good? I personally never have the same attachment or love of the artwork knowing they didn't make the piece.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 7:55:28 GMT
I am also not sure Banksy's are not selling. Yes a few won't get daft money they want. But that's not; not selling. Also if you also look at the reality and you have said yourself that actually his prices are moving him away from his trad market and similarly one of the causes of the rise in price has been the interest of the contemp market collectors in a street artist and other trad street artists. Similarly a lot of the trad market flogging them as the money is just so good and they have more important things to do with it than just look at it. Re the contemp market they are buying at a higher rates than say people here are. Hence the prices at auctions as of late have not exactly been collapsing. So don't think they will rise at the recent daft rates but and steady increase. Do not see them collapsing but as others have said stabalising and steady increase. So do not really see much change. You are right, still a lot change hands, but i also see a lot who not sell at the moment. Even with price drops and 'fair' prices. Time will tell i guess... |
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Post by misterwhisper on May 16, 2015 8:26:12 GMT
I don't know if there's a crash or even a drop eminent, but I think a slowdown is inevitable. As high as the prices are, there's a ton of availability -- a surprising amount. At any given moment on ebay, ebay UK, and on the other forum there's always quite a few available -- especially Bomb Huggers and Toxic Marys, people are dropping those like they're going out of style. Compare this to five years ago, when prices were much lower but far fewer came to market. Back then, in 2010, I was looking for a copy of Silver Flag for months without success, but ended up buying an unsigned CND instead. It was twice my budget but I snatched it up without a second thought because I saw them so rarely that I knew it could easily be a year before I saw another (and it was). Nowadays, though, a simple ebay search will bring up dozens of Banksy prints (I just counted 26, and probably missed some). And the lack of price transparency, esp on the other forum, is ridiculous, with the constant hyped-up "price checks" and the phantom blind bidding wars. Still, I surprised to see this two weeks ago: www.sothebys.com/content/sothebys/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2015/prints-n09332/lot.149.htmlThat's a hammer price (before premium) of $12k. Even more surprisingly, it had a single bidder, and sold for opening bid price. Now $12K USD is a lot -- but it's only about half of what they're claiming CYW is worth on UAA. There's a good chance that the market will settle, or is settling, due to saturation. And then of course there's the investors, who will or should start questioning the logic of these prices. Signed, lesser known Warhol prints like Committee 2000 or Space Fruit sell for considerably less then signed (and sometimes even unsigned) Banksy prints, and the same Sotheby's auction mentioned above sold several signed Warhol soup cans for $22-26K, or less than many galleries will ask for a signed Banksy -- and Warhol Soup Cans are signature, seminal works. Don't like Andy? You can easily buy a signed, editioned Lichtenstein for under $10K, a Haring for considerably less. Don't like that American Pop stuff? Signed Picasso etchings, editioned and signed Picasso and Matisse exhibition posters are readily available for less than the cheapest signed Banksy, and work from high-end living artists like Ellsworth Kelly, Jasper Johns, Ai Weiwei, etc are also much less. That said, I don't expect any Banksy to lose value, his work is great and he's achieved a level of popularity outside of the high art world that few artists achieve, and of course nobody who bought at secondary market prices is going to want to sell their pieces at a loss. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the prices will stablize and I'll finally get that damned Silver Flag that's still eluding me. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 8:43:50 GMT
Of course they're overpriced and hyped to death, but the market is still relatively strong. The fact that Banksy doesn't do what pretty much every artist does i.e. regularly have shows and releases perpetuates this bubble. It would be great if Banksy decided to do loads of cheap editions or perhaps a timed release for charity to let everyone have something of his at a sensible price. I reckon a timed release for a cause close to his heart could raise £100s thousands if not more.
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Post by geswrk on May 16, 2015 8:52:27 GMT
sure the prints are multiples, but each time another changes hands it increases the likelihood of it remaining with someone who wishes to keep it and not sell on. Also the amount of tip top condition ones become fewer all the time. So I don't think there is any danger of market saturation. In terms of how well know he is in the world these editions are not so huge. People are still discovering this artist and there are rumors of the chinese market beginning to take an interest.
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Post by jeezuzjonessnr on May 16, 2015 8:57:57 GMT
I think everyone - after the museum show the working class saved hard and bought their very own unsigned. And Galleries, city bankers/investors stockpiled their signed prints and OG's as there was nothing else worth investing in. So the buyers now have their banksy and have just slowed down that's all. So if anything the market may have plateaued/level off for a little while.. if it does it won't be for long, there will be another banksy stunt to create more interest and prices will shoot up again as there is limited supply out there...
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Post by lonelyfarmer on May 16, 2015 9:22:10 GMT
If Woolworths were still gigging they would be selling Hippy wigs.
' Working class', love that.
Buy food and pay the utility bills or summat else you need.
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Post by lonelyfarmer on May 16, 2015 9:23:10 GMT
Hello all, As a true street art addict i have been paying close attention at new releases, old pieces, prints and originals. I bought and appreciate a lot of pieces over the years. I do own a couple unsigned Banksy prints also. But a lot of Banksy art is way out of reach for me and most people. Which is a great shame as street art was originally intended to be free to see for everyone. Of course all artists also need food and most of them are reasonably (Cheap) priced. I am happy to pay for a stunning piece but some are just way out of reach. Banksy prices have been rising for years. There were stories about Banksy himself not caring for the aftermarket prices, bubbles bursting, Art dealers auctioning and buying their own pieces to push up prices, some even predicted Banksy flooding the market to ruin aftermarket prices. Banksy even made the Morons image when one of his pieces got sold in auction for silly money. (I'm the biggest Moron of the lot, since i own one of the LA Morons and the POW Morons ) A lot of people bought and still buy as an investment, since prices were rising and rising and rising... But lately i see a little light at the end of the tunnel for us mortals who can not afford (most) unsigned prints, let alone originals or singed ones. It seems there are a lot of prints for sale who just don't sell for the asking prices. Some even lower their asking prices. As only 4 months ago when a print was offered it turned into a bidding frenzy..... Are we finally there that some prices steadily increase a little, and perhaps keep increasing over months? Are the days of rising Banksy prices behind us (for a while)? Is it possible to buy a signed Trolley Hunters (BW of course ) for 4.5k or less again? Is it true? Is it finally happening? Cheers, J No, but at the same time.... no. |
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Post by Aza on May 16, 2015 10:16:09 GMT
I thought I logged onto UAA for a minute then! Isn't this the forum without money talk?  |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 12:00:51 GMT
I thought I logged onto UAA for a minute then! Isn't this the forum without money talk? I didn't mean to start the money discussion, just my observation about prices seem to drop (which i think is very good)  |
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Post by notmattl on May 16, 2015 12:29:27 GMT
The drop in prices is undeniable. I was about to jump the gun on 1, possibly 2 signed prints, but am now holding back as I see the prices deflating slowly.
Not sure about an impending crash though, just a correction that can be tied to a variety of reasons
What will happen next is anybody's guess really. "Bubble will burst sell while you can" , "the Chinese are all over Banksy, buy everything in sight", anything in between, including a new BOTI style stunt that increases hype, a flooding of the market in true Maverick artist style, a print on Mars to one up MBW's cousin etc…that's what makes it fun
Other funny thing is that in the same time frame, it seems that Banksy (more or less) related paraphernalia is slowly creeping up in price. The magazines, the early 3 little books with more of less official stickers, the completely unofficial records with the Rats / Monkeys / Choppers / Kates…
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Post by yoyosh on May 16, 2015 12:29:56 GMT
If prices were actually dropping you'd be able to find a Flags (high edition/not his greatest image) for a reasonable price.
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Post by #pfg242 on May 16, 2015 12:48:14 GMT
I don't think there is as bubble about to burst, just a little price correction after recent Banksy publicity and a few trying to take advantage. He will always be a holy grail for art lovers or investers and prices will fluctuate.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 13:00:41 GMT
A very large, call it seismic, market correction in the US is approaching. What impact that will have on our little hobby is unknown. I suspect it will not be a good thing for so-called blue chip artists like Fairey, Banksy, Invader, Brainwash, etc., and will all but close the doors of the glut of new print houses and the artists they represent. Liquidate accordingly. Just my bearish opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. Jesus brainwash is blue chip ?!? US is approaching a market correction well it has been 7 years since the last one. |
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Post by notUmBongo on May 16, 2015 13:29:09 GMT
I thought I logged onto UAA for a minute then! Isn't this the forum without money talk? Toto Aza, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas The UAA FR's Cunt Ranch anymore... YAY  notUmBongo |
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